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> justified retaliation

I don’t see how it would be justified. Do you think the cartels are in the right here?

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> Do you think the cartels are in the right here?

Of course not, none of the sides are at all in the right here. But from the cartels perspective, they're almost certainly in the right.

Drug cartels are entirely the result of poor policies, and the blame for all the harms caused by them rests primarily on the shoulders of those perpetuating those policies. Surely the politicians that vote for laws that directly enable drug cartels to exist in the first place must be worse than the leaders of any individual drug cartel?

Any kind of serious analysis of who's more right would end up being a work at the scale of Rising Up and Rising Down, that's probably best avoided.

If we oversimplify cartels into innocent businessmen just looking to sell drugs, with governments being the ones that introduced violence into the equation in their effort to stop them? Surely it must be the cartels

If we oversimplify cartels into evil criminals just looking to wield power over other human beings, with governments just trying to liberate people from cartel tyranny? Surely it must be the governments


> But from the cartels perspective, they're almost certainly in the right.

Sure, but so is basically everyone. ISIS is in the right and justified then, too.


> Sure, but so is basically everyone.

Well, sure! The crucial difference between cartels and ISIS is that the cartels are in it to make money, ISIS is an ideologically motivated nation-building project.

The cartels disappear when the activity becomes unprofitable, ISIS does not.

The cartels tend to use violence when it's profitable, ISIS will use violence because they believe that an imaginary man wants them to do so.

You could legalize and regulate their drug-related business, paying a small amount of taxes will probably be more attractive than maintaining a private military in the long term.

Alternatively you can fight like this, barely dent the cartels and instead cause massive amounts of suffering for the regular people who live in the middle of it all? If you actually cared about improving things rather than making a show, surely you'd want to pursue policies that (a) actually help you get rid of the negative influence of the cartels and (b) avoid collateral damage by not forcing the cartels to retaliate.


> not forcing the cartels to retaliate.

What do you mean forcing? They are organized crime, this is what they choose to do. The right thing for them to do is turn themselves in.

How do you expect the cartel to subside and eventually dissolve? Policies that encourage them to play nicely?


>What do you mean forcing? They are organized crime, this is what they choose to do. The right thing for them to do is turn themselves in.

Self preservation. Turning themselves in would be antithetical to that. To expect anyone to sacrifice themselves would be absurd.

The only reason the government is only occasionally assassinating individual leaders instead of fighting open war against the cartels is that the cartels are willing and able to impose unacceptable costs in retaliation. It would be suicidal to not retaliate.

>How do you expect the cartel to subside and eventually dissolve? Policies that encourage them to play nicely?

Policies that eliminate their sources of revenue.


Also, coalition didn't get rid of ISIS by negotiation or something. They used bombs and, in one advisor's words, entrenching tools.

Drug cartels are entirely the result of poor policies, one of which is that the Mexican government has not been punishing the cartels. Maybe they're fixing that.

He probably sees them as marginalised POC bravely feeding their families under the thumb of American imperialism.

[flagged]


* Says Mexicans can't be POCs *

* Calls me a neo-nazi *

fantastic


[flagged]


JasonADrury: I mean fuck, the silly European me thought that Mexicans were mostly white. They sure as hell mostly look like Europeans to me.

djohnston: * Says Mexicans can't be POCs *

DJ really overstated it, but yes: you are a silly European. Most Mexicans have a substantial Native American heritage, and aren't considered "white" by most USians. The richer Mexicans you may have encountered traveling to Europe are more upperclass whitebre(a)d, mostly Spanish bloodlines.

djohnston: * Calls me a neo-nazi *

JasonADrury: > Is this some weird neo-Nazi trope you subscribe to?

You are guilty as charged.

DJ's reading comprehension is fine.


[flagged]


Who is absolving the cartels of their crimes?

You said something like "nobody is in the right here" and called the cartel response a "justified retaliation"

Government obviously isn't in the right when it simultaneously continues perpetuating policies that ensure the continued existence of the cartels.

Ok, to everyone else this probably sounds like cartel apologia. They make an actual step towards destroying the cartels, and you complain.

This list is pretty telling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Mexico_most-wanted_drug_l...

They're all dead or captured, you could make a new list like that every 10 years. Things do not improve.

> They make an actual step towards destroying the cartels, and you complain

That's a lie. If this was "an actual step towards destroying the cartels" the countless similar instances in the past would have taken us in that direction, instead the cartels keep growing and not shrinking. There's simply no way a reasonable person could conclude that this is a step towards destroying the cartels.




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