One of the best skills to learn is to see through fluff and understand what is going on. I'd actually say that the best first language to learn would be assembly language. It's insanely simple, but there's a lot of fluff, so you have to learn how to 'read' code in terms of overall structure/flow instead of focusing on each individual instruction.
I'm still not convinced learning in classes is going to produce anything but mediocre programmers though.
Learning to see through the fluff is not a beginner skill. I'll just stop here and say I think you'd make a poor teacher because you show little if any empathy or awareness of what it means to not know something or how important it is for a beginner to have small successes and working programs right from the start.
I agree I would make a bad teacher for a general class. I think programming skill is largely natural talent and isn't something that can be taught.
I'd also say that the biggest skill anyone can have is the ability to self learn. Being taught the fundamentals of programming in a class doesn't bode well for future hacker ability IMHO.
If someone has a natural talent for it, it can be nurtured, but trying to teach just anyone how to program is the reason we have so many mediocre programmers in the industry. Some people should give up on programming.
Imagine anyone could go to art college, get a job as an artist, and be employed at big industries "blending in" and never really rated on their art work. This is the issue with programming. At the moment, there's this strange belief that anyone can be a great programmer - that it's just typing. Mediocre and bad programmers who may have a piece of paper saying they completed courses, are allowed jobs in industry.
I think programming skill is largely natural talent and isn't something that can be taught.
I disagree, sort of; thinking logically is the natural talent, being good at programming is a mere side effect. People who are inherently bad at associating cause and effect, just aren't going to be good at anything that requires logic and rational thinking.
but trying to teach just anyone how to program is the reason we have so many mediocre programmers in the industry.
No it isn't, people who have no natural talent for programming don't just do it for no reason, they do it because the pay is attractive and this is one of the few fields where one can get a pretty high paying job without any degree at all.
The dot com boom and the absurdly high salaries that were thrown out to anyone that could slap together some HTML is the reason we're currently stuck with so many mediocre programmers. As long as someone can fake it, and land a nice paying job, hordes of mediocre fakers will continue calling themselves programmers.
It's not even that these people can't be taught to program well, they simply have no interest in programming well. They learn just enough to get by, collect a paycheck, and go home. The thing missing isn't ability, it's interest. This isn't something limited to our field either, it happens in any field where $$ is not linked to actual performance or proof of skill; managers are another good example.
I agree - methodical scientific thought processes are the talent. I disagree about degrees though. When someone says they have a degree in computer science, I'd always be very weary.
If you were to commission a portrait of yourself, would you choose an artist based on his previous works, or based on some certificate saying he completed a course on art at some college? I know which I'd base it on.
I wasn't claiming a degree was necessary, or even an indicator of success in programming, merely that it tends to filter out the people who have no interest in the subject. Sadly, many people who are interested are ruined in college by being taught Java.
Past work is always a better indicator than any recommendation, be it on paper or verbal, but past work is proof of skill, which I already mentioned.
One of the best skills to learn is to see through fluff and understand what is going on. I'd actually say that the best first language to learn would be assembly language. It's insanely simple, but there's a lot of fluff, so you have to learn how to 'read' code in terms of overall structure/flow instead of focusing on each individual instruction.
I'm still not convinced learning in classes is going to produce anything but mediocre programmers though.