There was a person who posted here who sued Tesla and won for not delivering full self driving. Tesla tried to make the person agree to not release anything but he said no and won interest on his payment for FSD. Good read, 6 months ago.
Is that possible though ? Always wondered about free market logic especially when certain sectors can be priced any ways they want (like healthcare). Are there regulations that cover pricing fluctuations ?
My understanding is that most regulations are generally related to essential commodities like groceries and used during emergency times.
Do they have a case? I don't know, I haven't looked at the marketting and sales materials, but the whole calling it full self-driving while also writing letters to the DMV indicating it's not self-driving at all strikes of deceptive practices to me. But maybe it's spelled out in the materials?
>Do they have a case? I don't know, I haven't looked at the marketting and sales materials, but the whole calling it full self-driving while also writing letters to the DMV indicating it's not self-driving at all strikes of deceptive practices to me. But maybe it's spelled out in the materials?
That's entirely unrelated to "the people who paid $15,000". It would be applicable even if there wasn't a price cut.
Considering everyone that bought FSD before this drop still has not been delivered a working product that was promised, they should be within their rights to get the difference back imo.
If you buy something and it goes on sale before it’s delivered almost every retailer will price match the difference if you ask.
I mean, if the CEO of the television company had tweeted:
> The FSD price will continue to rise as the software gets closer to full self-driving capability with regulatory approval. It that point, the value of FSD is probably somewhere in excess of $100,000.
Not a hater, the M3 is the best car I have ever owned, but based on the fact they cant get the windscreen wipers working properly and auto-pilot keeps braking for no reason, even if they cut it to zero dollars I still wouldnt trust it.
Same here, except MYLR. We got the car for other reasons (electric, range, spacious, performant) and was extremely surprised by how buggy the, supposedly stellar, software aspects are, in particular these exact same two items: the autopilot and windshield wipers.
And no, I was not expecting a self-driving car or anything even close to that. I just wanted the excellent lane assist and adaptive cruise control in my previous Kira Niro upgraded so that it would do traffic jams too. Tesla can't even get the basic lane assist right - the one you have on all the time and keeps your car gently and consistently centered on your lane. ACC is ok but prone to sudden and scary breaking and continuously harassing the driver. Then there's all those alarms and buzzes that scare my kids all the time. They even implemented a "Joe mode" [1] so that it reduces the overall alarm volumes for the kids in the back seat, but it's insufficient for reducing the amount of attention the car requires to just drive semi-autonomous.
This... Is a good thing? Time goes on, production scales up, and and things get cheaper, no? Shame to see the Elon hate on HN, he has made an exceptional product that is kick-starting the green energy revolution.
I own several Teslas, and have a trial of FSD. It is in no way worth $8k or $100/month as long as I have to fully supervise it. I am not interested in paying for Tesla to attempt to justify an unrealistic valuation based on “we’re a robotaxi company.” My auto wipers don’t even work on my “legacy” 2018 Model S.
The charging network and vehicle platform are exceptional. The “self driving” is driver assist and only an assist.
> The charging network and vehicle platform are exceptional. The “self driving” is driver assist and only an assist.
Agreed, and I'd add that while I agree the underlying platform and charging network are exceptional, the finished vehicles themselves are often lacking in polish and are in no way what I would call exceptional. Panel gaps, cheap feeling materials, lack of carplay/android auto (seriously?), lack of a directional signal stalk on recent models, very few physical buttons, all controls and displays in the center of the dash out of the direct line of sight of the driver (at least on the 3/Y/truck), and wildly under-delivering on performance/range/price of the cybertruck vs. the announced specs are all examples I've seen.
I'm betting that open access to NACS and the supercharger network by other brands' EVs is going to be detrimental to Tesla in the long term, because that's one of their biggest advantages at the moment.
> I'm betting that open access to NACS and the supercharger network by other brands' EVs is going to be detrimental to Tesla in the long term, because that's one of their biggest advantages at the moment.
Other brands have to pay for access, and cannot sell EVs without access to the network due to consumer range anxiety. Tesla either gets unit margin, or a cut of legacy auto EV sales for network access.
I wonder if this means that Tesla will eventually become primarily an EV charging platform company. Despite being the owner of an EV for the last 8 years who will likely never buy an ICE car again, I can't see myself ever buying a Tesla vehicle in their current form. But I'm very interested in non-Tesla EVs with access to Tesla chargers.
Elon has stated relentlessly that the price of FSD will only go up as it gets closer to release because it’s going to become increasingly better and more valuable.
It went from $15->$12->$8k in the span of a year. Seems like it’s doing the opposite of getting better.
It’s the most amazing AI system out there. I got fsd a few months ago and the rate of improvement is astonishing, I go about 100-200 miles between disengagements now and have zero intervention drives to the grocery. It’s much better than a regular Uber or Lyft driver.
40k people a year die on American roads and this technology seems like the leading candidate to reduce that dramatically. I highly recommend it.
If true, that would be utterly dire for Tesla. 200 miles per disengagement is _bad_.
Cruise doesn’t report disengagements that I can tell, but Waymo is at ~17k per disengagement, WeRide is at ~21k and Zoox is 177k.
Nissan is at 284, and Apple is at 142, so that would put Tesla about there in performance. That’s a couple of orders of magnitude off from the other players.
I wonder what the marginal cost is to Tesla, whether the price is more of a discriminator (let people with less sensitivity spend whatever they want while hitting a lower price point for those on a budget) or if it's more about slowing the roll out of a beta product, like how alcohol is expensive on trains and airplanes just to slow down the rate at which people get drunk.
$5k is the right price for Tesla FSD v12.
If it is able to 'remember/recall' individual American roads from its database rather solely relying on neural nets then that would probably change the dynamics of FSD.
Public funds are ostensibly managed by democracy for the benefit of all of society, while so-called "private" funds are literally managed by dictatorship for the benefit of the dictator.
I wouldn't consent to these rules, but most people do so they are the rules, and it's likely the logic behind Elon's thinking.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/21/23315270/tesla-full-self-...
They should demand their money back.