That sounds more like urban vs rural. The southerners I've known (Alabama) are pretty blunt about asking for what they want. Going further with stereotypes, some people say west coast is guess, east is ask.
"Going further with stereotypes, some people say west coast is guess, east is ask."
My experience is the opposite. I grew up in New England, and it seemed like there were a large number of unspoken norms (in both business and personal culture) that were really hard to grok. Moving out to the Bay Area, people are refreshingly direct. "Want to come work for equity on my crypto startup?" "No, you're crazy." "Okay goodbye!"
I think that where hypocrisy and indirection are ingrained in Silicon Valley, it's because of diverging incentives and a lust for power. In other words, people won't unconsciously hurt your feelings because they assume you would've consciously spoken up; they will consciously screw you over because they want that billion dollar deal. It feels very much like an ask culture, though, regardless of how crazy the asks are.
1) A substantial number of individuals in the bay aren't originally from there.
2) Assuming the role of a startup founder inherently demands a familiarity with ask culture.
One of the initial steps frequently involves requesting significant amounts of money from individuals, with minimal consequence to the borrower if it doesn't materialize to anything!
That's precisely what makes Western (and particularly American) culture an "ask" one, though. Ask cultures arise when you have a great diversity of individuals and can't make assumptions on their backgrounds, desires, or how they would interpret an interaction. Guess cultures arise when you have a long period of stability, and communities that form and persist over generations. When this happens, you can start to make consistent norms and then pass them down in childhood, so everyone in the community has a good sense of what's expected of them.
Bay Area startup culture is an extreme example of Bay Area culture in general, which is an extreme example of Western U.S. culture, which is an extreme example of American culture, which is an extreme example of general western European culture. But they're all marked by fluid, transient groupings of people that came from all over.
I see what you're getting at. My intention was to highlight that I don't believe Silicon Valley culture is synonymous with Bay Area culture. In my interactions with individuals who were raised in Northern California or even the Bay Area, I’ve seen a lot of “guess” culture fairly similar to the PNW.
To phrase it differently, a significant number of the people you’re thinking of probably wont establish lasting roots in the Bay and thus wouldn't be passing down that culture to the subsequent generation of Bay Area youngsters.
It's a thought-provoking query indeed though, pondering what characterizes the "prototypical San Franciscan" and how that might evolve over time!
> Moving out to the Bay Area, people are refreshingly direct
Weird, I moved from Boston to the Bay Area and I have the opposite experience.
In Boston if someone asked me to have dinner with them it was always just dinner. If they had other intentions they would state them up front.
In the Bay Area a good fraction of the time the other person has an unstated intention (hiring, dating, asking for intros to dates, asking for intros to investors, asking for other help ...) that I usually need to dig up before I say yes or no. The thing is, sometimes it is a yes, I just wish people would be more upfront that there is an agenda around this "dinner".
Indeed rural vs. urban is another divide across which such differences are observed. People from big metro areas are usually more blunt than in the surroundings. Probably because people there usually come from diverse backgrounds, but "guess" culture requires the opposite to work.
As someone who's lived in both environments, I think most urban people develop a shell from the constant interaction that's required in a city. People selling wares, hobos/homeless, and a stronger need to protect oneself. You have to be blunt or you'll never get anywhere. lol.
This is advice preached to people visiting NYC all the time.
The person on the corner asking “excuse me sir may I please ask you a question” almost certainly has ulterior motives. Locals in a busy neighborhood ignore a guy like that a few times a day.
But the person on the corner who says “hey which way is the 7 train?” with no preamble is gonna get good answers, despite being less traditionally polite.
Where there is constant stimulation, the cultural norms get a lot more direct
Yeah, on the other hand, I recently was looking for an old land cruiser and got in touch with a local guy on facebook. Knew I wanted it and sent him 1k to hold the car for me for a few days until I could rent a trailer. He did so and I picked up the suv without a hitch.
I'd never do this in Los Angeles where I live part time.
I context switch based on which home I'm at, North Georgia or Los Angeles.
That's a very good analysis, so much it seems obvious in retrospect. But I think it misses one other factor: I've witnessed the most rural people to adopt ask-culture when they were guess people before. My gut says this has something to do with social media/smartphones but idk.
It may have more to do with deeper, more static personal relationships within a community in rural settings. In urban settings, folks generally don’t know their neighbors, can hide in numbers, have to be more assertive with strangers and acquaintances, and can get away to a fresh start if they wreck their reputation.
I think ask vs guess is a good start, but looking at my experience and looking at what people are talking about here, there is at least one more dimension at play here.
