Since you took the time to write such a big reply - I owe you the same courtesy. First: I'm not referring to you as a naysayer, just trying to clarify the timeline (both expected and perceived). No - your comments were far from the single catalyst for his post, months of comments built up to that comment, so don't worry - none of this, or that, was a personal attack against you.
I concur - the http://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3 page needs to be more prominent. I think the entire download page needs to be junked, and completely rethought out, but I, not anyone else I know have the time or the constitution to do it.
So yes, the download page could be better - but I don't know anyone willing to change it.
How would you communicate it? Python-dev is public, the plans and designs of Python 3 are open. The lists are open for questions, and I don't know of a single core developer who would not take the time to answer questions. We've made it as public as possible, and reiterated it at every single PyCon, in every blog post we could, etc.
I completely disagree that this is a poor time to get started with python. There is no confusion: Use Python 2 unless you can use Python 3. I use python2 every day, and have no intention of switching to 3 in production before Django and several other things port over.
The python community (see PEPs, the moratorium, web-sig discussions) moves relatively slowly. We get something that works and then we slowly begin to move towards something else. A lot of discussion, and a lot of thought goes into each step.
For example, yes: the general release was necessary - we need an official release for people to even pay attention. We need an official release for OS distributions to even consider picking it up and shipping it alongside existing Python 2 installs.
Yes, the fact that a choice has to be made sucks: but we, those of us in "core" can do nothing but encourage and help with porting where we can, the PSF can sponsor sprints, and we can bide our time.
As for the length of time to get PEP 3333 accepted? Go look at the web-sig archives to find out way. No decision in the community is made without intense and thorough debate.
Finally, I can understand your frustration - its frustrating I have to keep repeating myself because this confusion exists. But I can sum my opinion really simply: Use Python 2.7 until more libraries and frameworks port.
Everyone is open to how we can improve communication: but we're also short on resources. I do what I can commenting in places like here, and trying to explain to people who don't know.
So, I hope that this "confusion" isn't hurting adoption: we've tried to explain things time and time again, only time and framework/tool and libraries authors porting can help at this point.
I concur - the http://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3 page needs to be more prominent. I think the entire download page needs to be junked, and completely rethought out, but I, not anyone else I know have the time or the constitution to do it.
So yes, the download page could be better - but I don't know anyone willing to change it.
How would you communicate it? Python-dev is public, the plans and designs of Python 3 are open. The lists are open for questions, and I don't know of a single core developer who would not take the time to answer questions. We've made it as public as possible, and reiterated it at every single PyCon, in every blog post we could, etc.
I completely disagree that this is a poor time to get started with python. There is no confusion: Use Python 2 unless you can use Python 3. I use python2 every day, and have no intention of switching to 3 in production before Django and several other things port over.
The python community (see PEPs, the moratorium, web-sig discussions) moves relatively slowly. We get something that works and then we slowly begin to move towards something else. A lot of discussion, and a lot of thought goes into each step.
For example, yes: the general release was necessary - we need an official release for people to even pay attention. We need an official release for OS distributions to even consider picking it up and shipping it alongside existing Python 2 installs.
Yes, the fact that a choice has to be made sucks: but we, those of us in "core" can do nothing but encourage and help with porting where we can, the PSF can sponsor sprints, and we can bide our time.
As for the length of time to get PEP 3333 accepted? Go look at the web-sig archives to find out way. No decision in the community is made without intense and thorough debate.
Finally, I can understand your frustration - its frustrating I have to keep repeating myself because this confusion exists. But I can sum my opinion really simply: Use Python 2.7 until more libraries and frameworks port.
Everyone is open to how we can improve communication: but we're also short on resources. I do what I can commenting in places like here, and trying to explain to people who don't know.
So, I hope that this "confusion" isn't hurting adoption: we've tried to explain things time and time again, only time and framework/tool and libraries authors porting can help at this point.