Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

> They invent the delusion that gender and age disqualifies you for a job (girls will just get pregnant and leave!

This is not a delusion, and it's a thing commonly talked about in my country (Poland). It's not just about that girls will get pregnant and leave - it'll be that girls will get pregnant and out of the sudden[0] go on paid maternity leave, which they can extend to a year, during which you have to keep their position open, after which you can't legally fire them even if you've already found a replacement, and there are many women[1] who plan another pregnancy just after the leave period ends, in order to extend their employment period by another two years. The incentive here is that health leave and maternity leave both count as employment, so they don't have a break in years of employment on their CV (and both are paid, too).

Overall effect of our legal landscape makes companies prefer men over women, and/or prefer employment contracts that don't offer these legal guarantees, and there's always noise being made whenever our government (which is currently pro-family) starts talking about adjustments that would extend some protections to those other work contract types.

(Now I'm not saying this to justify the bias in general, but just to point out that there are real economic pressures in play that do get considered by the employers.)

--

[0] - You don't have a "notice period" on maternity live; if a doctor decides there are concerns about the health of a mother or a child, your employee can just give you the doctor's note and stop coming to work.

[1] - And I've personally heard parents encouraging their daughters to do that. It seems to be a common theme, at least among the less well-off parts of our population. The boss-employee relationship is pretty antagonistic.



This is actually a hard problem to genuinely solve. I don't know what the solution is, but I'm not really happy with the current way we typically talk about such things, which often amounts to denying that such issues exist.

You can't solve problems while pretending they don't exist and making it Verboten to speak of them.


Exactly.

Beyond inertia of the traditional family model, there are real biological constraints that you can't bulldoze with calls to equality - pregnancy is taxing on the body, childbirth doubly so, the mother needs time to recover, and she's arguably the more important parent in early stages of a child's life. You can't e.g. declare equal amount of childbirth leave for both genders and call it a day.

(Though equal, paid mandatory leave for both parents would probably be fairer and also more beneficial for the child.)

I don't have first clue what the optimal, or "most fair", way of equalizing career prospects in context of childbirth is. But as you write, we can't reach it if people are pretending that the problem doesn't exist. And in context of companies, that means realizing employers aren't discriminating here out of spite or evil nature, but because there are economical considerations in play, and with them comes market pressure.


Thank you for leaving substantive and reasoned comments on the topic.


It is a good thing that parents can do that, for some reason these issues do not come up when men take paternity leave here. It is very common for fathers to be gone for a 6-12 months after their babies are born.

You just need to change the laws, and how you deal with parenting socially, then it will all make sense ("just").


Our laws allow for two types of paternity leave; one is 14 days, the other is 6 weeks for a single child and taking it reduces mother's maternity leave. This makes it impossible for a man to play shenanigans that make them stay on leave while employed for couple years.

Definitely there's a lot of work to be done on parenting in Poland, both in regulatory and social fashion. Currently it's a tension between the traditional family model and the desire to allow women to have equal career prospects to men.


I'm not sure what "play shenanigans" means in this context, but it seems out of context? I agree that the laws and socialnorms surrounding the care of children are complex. But being able to spend time with my children was of immense value to me, and as you said it allowed my partner to have a very productive career.


By "play shenanigans" I meant what I described about how it commonly works in Poland - a mother going on an early health leave, followed by a year of maternity leave, followed by another pregnancy, rinse repeat. Basically, intentionally stacking planned pregnancies in a way that maximally exploits a single employer.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: