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Then do like UAE? No permanent residency or naturalization


Amnesty International report that things are fairly bad in the UAE for foreign workers.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-af...


That is kinda the intention, not the accident thing


Depends which foreign workers. It's popular with Brits. Iffier legal protections but no 50% tax.


When people have no hope of not making it as a permanent resident or citizen, their incentives to perform well are not as high. Also immigration is a global market, you compete with other countries that might offer better conditions so you lose on the best workforce.


I don't know the overall ratio, but my experience working with many immigrant workers is that they had no real intention of staying and instead are just arbitraging cost of living between [rich country] and [poor country] for their family back home. Emphasis on home.


Sounds like you have a really limited interaction with immigrants. I’m lifelong immigrant (4 different countries) in every single one of those countries majority of immigrants want to stay. Permanent residency is a constant conversation topic. There are definitely immigrants thinking like your explanation, but definitely a minority. .


It seems to depend a lot on whether it's skilled or unskilled work.


There are all sorts of reasons people emigrate. It varies based on the jobs they’re doing, where they’re from, and where they’re going. And whatever their intentions, things change. And, why must there be a universal answer for everyone?


We do. Swiss naturalization is famously difficult.

But EU citizens can basically live forever in CH even though technically they don’t have permanent residency.


There are 40k naturalisations each year (a similar number relative to population as in the US). Around 13% of the Swiss citizens have acquired the nationality via naturalisation (8% in the US).


How many of those were born in CH?

How many people born in CH never become Swiss? Because for the US, that number is ~0%.

And before you say: "well the US have different rules", well, ok, but then don't compare us to the US on the other number either, compare us to other EU countries with similar types of rules but different implementations.

CH has stricter naturalization laws than many EU countries and CH has mandatory military service which discourages many males from naturalizing, even those born in the country.


> How many of those were born in CH?

About one third. That would bring the fraction of naturalised foreign-born citizens in line with the US (which is also a kind-of-hard place to get citizenship, that's true).

> CH has mandatory military service which discourages many males from naturalizing

That doesn't make it difficult, it makes it undesirable and suggests that many people could get it but choose not to.


Big difference between permanent residency and naturalisation.


Some countries print them out very liberally though. Sweden did not require financial self-sufficiency or language ability until like 2 weeks ago. I raised this point back in like 2015 and was promptly called a racist. So these have been handed to people who have nothing to do with the country. Few other countries have done this too but less so. Now all their children etc. will have unfettered access to Switzerland.

Tbh I cannot see anything else but Swiss people at some point voting themselves out of this somehow.


Your comments do land on the xenophobic side though. E.g."Indians with German passports": You need to pass a naturalization and language tests before applying for citizenship. Until recently you couldn't even apply without living in the country for 6+ years - now reduced to 4+. So how do you or potential Swiss know they are Indians? The first thing that comes to mind is that you're assuming it by the way they look.


Eh, my PM has been in Switzerland for 8 years and it's still very obvious he's Indian from his accent, from his restaurant preferences and from his choice of holiday destinations... Just like I've been here 10 and it's still obvious I'm an Aussie. You can legally naturalize, but you will never truly be like a kid who grew up there in their formative years.


I think people are really past the point of caring. The limousine liberals of course make a fuss but sitting on the high horse has not really served democrats that well, just taking L after L. And the sitting president is Epstein-Mossad pedofile and huge number still stand behind him without any shame.


North Korea still exists.


It's good that they sold it to Ellison, an ardent zionist who referred to IDF as "our guys", who also now owns CBS, CNN and what else? What can we call this?


Good morning to the Anthropic office good sir


Israel already does this through Epstein information from all the cameras and microphones that were listening and filming all the powerful people who visited the Island and the houses. They probably have a new Epstein already.


The Soviet Union was doing it 75 years ago


Way to miss the point lmao


Care to elaborate?


If I had to choose I rather take free internet where I don't have to play with some VPN every time I want to do something or play a game in steam. Self driving cars are nice toys though but I don't mind having a driver.

I say this as someone who has lived in China, the system is just too closed and dumb.


In America the public transport is used by "youths" so normal people are forced to use cars.


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