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> But tos generally don’t include commercial activities

I can't think of any ToS that prohibit a device manufacturer from testing whether the content plays on their device. That's literally why anyone buys content - to play it on their device.

How would they enforce those anyway? And how would being sued for that be worse than being sued for torrenting?


People should stop citing that paper. It makes the opposite point they think it makes. I think most people just read the first couple of sentences in the abstract.

"We estimate that data centers caused average retail electricity rates to fall modestly in the United States from 2015 to 2024 using an instrumental variables approach."

But the data center backlash really started 2 years ago. It's 2026 now. Getting new energy generation built and approved takes time.

"We caution that future supply constraints could reverse the effect."

There it is.


Can they build it safely as fast as the data center it's meant to power? Full steam ahead then.

Some older nuclear power plants are been commissioned back into production:

Three Mile Island

"2027 – Nuclear Regulatory Commission to decide whether to issue operating license to Constellation Energy, with the decision expected in May. If granted, Constellation expects to bring the reactor back online later in the year."

https://www.witf.org/2026/07/28/three-mile-island-reactor-re...

Michigan’s Palisades nuclear power plant

https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/nuclear/americas-first-...

Duane Arnold Energy Center in Iowa

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nextera-energy-partn...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duane_Arnold_Energy_Center#Res...


If electricity bills are steady or falling they should have no trouble convincing voters. Nothing to worry about.

It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront.

People do not believe big companies when they say "I'll deal with the externalities a little later."

So then does the data center compensate local residents for their higher power bills today? Until the new capacity comes online?

> Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront.

No it's like demanding your new neighbors aren't forced to lend you money for your purchase - which is entirely reasonable. If you need money, get it from the bank.

The top-level comment explains it already:

"When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution."


> It can be a little later. Your requirements is like demanding nobody can buy a house unless they have pay they entire amount upfront.

Have data center companies mortgaged their property to the public and paying interest on "power loans" monthly ? Please correct me if I am ignorant.


It typically takes 11-12 years for a nuclear plant to get built including planning and construction [1].

Is the idea that we'd build the data centers now, and finish the nuclear plants to power them 11-12 years from now?

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-timeline-of-a-nu...


For wind turbine project from design and planning to operational use-takes approximately 4-7 years. An offshore wind turbine project requires about 7-10 years.

https://jmhpower.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-build-a-wind-t...


> For wind turbine project from design and planning to operational use-takes approximately 4-7 years.

That's still better than 11-12 years. How long does a solar farm take?

If residents' opposition is rooted in higher power prices, data centers could just pay extra instead until the new capacity comes online. Seems like a cheap way to pay off opposition.

> An offshore wind turbine project requires about 7-10 years.

Given this article is about Pennsylvania, it'll probably take millions of years.


> How long does a solar farm take?

24–48 months, but for a data center that has to run 24/7 you need to also build a gas power plant.

https://www.pvfarm.io/blog/utility-scale-solar-project-devel...

https://globalenergymonitor.org/research/betting-big-data-ce...


Or use batteries.

Also residential and industrial use will be lower at night. So the existing grid supply may also be enough.


In many places the contraty is true, peak electricity prices are after sunset, during night.

> peak electricity prices are after sunset

The famous evening duck curve, when people go home and cook and turn on heating/cooling appliances. California is able to flatten that out with batteries alone.

https://eticaag.com/battery-storage-and-the-duck-curve-march...

> during night

When everyone's asleep? Serious doubt, please show your sources.


The 2024 NYT infographic also has a nice visualization of how batteries flattened the evening curve as of then: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/07/climate/batte...

> When everyone's asleep? Serious doubt, please show your sources.

Lot of industry, especialy heavy industry, chemical plants are running 24/7.

For expensive night prices see electricity prices in Europe, expensive natural gas, coal power production with carbom tax.

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/DE/live/fifteen_min...


> Lot of industry, especialy heavy industry, chemical plants are running 24/7.

Right...so they also run during the day (that's what 24/7 means), when everyone else is using electricity. At night they're the only users. Which means less demand at night compared to the day.

> see electricity prices in Europe

This article is about Pennsylvania. That isn't in Europe.


> This article is about Pennsylvania

You are right, PJM grid is coal, nuclear and gas dominated.

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-MIDA-PJM/live/fi...


I don't see any nighttime prices there. Where do you see that nighttime rates are higher than daytime rates in Pennsylvania?

PA electricity pricing per hour:

* Highest is 14:00 until 18:00 or 21:00

* Lowest is 23:00 or 24:00 until 6:00

https://electricrates.org/pennsylvania/time-of-use/


Adding to the sibling comment, from your link:

* The longest piece for wind is "Approvals and permits" which takes up to 5 years of the 4-7y.

* The building part "takes approximately 3-6 months" for building wind.

So wind can be built far faster if we're willing to speed up approvals and permitting. And even if corners are cut for approvals/permitting, the worst case for a wind turbine failure is a lot better than a nuclear failure.


You don't need to build them. You can just not retire, or unretire one.

Though we really should get better at building nuclear power plants. I'm think more of small ones to power ships though, not land based ones. Ships are one of the few places where oil/coal are used that there are not realistic renewable alternatives.


How do you prove that feathers were shed naturally, without harming a bird?

X-ray machines aren't all that expensive.

MRI machines generally run close to capacity because of how expensive they are. There is very little slack.

Cancer treatment already costs a fortune.


A quick Google search shows me that I could afford to buy a used lower-end MRI machine... (not that I would) They don't seem that expensive (though there's a factor of 10 difference between the cheapest lower-resolution used machines and the high end)

The ease of availability of same-day MRI services in London suggests to me there's quite a bit of slack here at least.

EDIT: Though one solution to preparedness for temporary capacity issues without as much over-provisioning everywhere: Mobile suites. My local hospital currently has a mobile MRI suite parked outside to clear their backlog.


there's more expensive equipment than just an x-ray machine and MRI machines, those were just examples. The building itself is expensive. Having the labor there ready to respond and service patients is expensive. Overall there is a ton of overhead with very expensive inputs that even if you come in and end up just getting a tylenol, you're going to pay for part of it

Ammunition and canned goods actually have inherent monetary value. While not being fiat currency.

Goods have inherent value. We are talking about currency.

> Pick any of the leader's third-rate third-tier henchmen or failsons for example of a worse option

But none of them were on the presidential ballot in 2016, 2020, or 2024.*

*Under one of the two parties that has any chance of actually winning.


Sure, but wait for 2028.

Is this sarcasm?

I'll say something controversial: Clinton and Harris were both better options than the guy who started his campaign mocking a reporter's disability. If voters had any sense it should've ended right there.

The rationalizing, the "corrupt DNC" arguments and everything else is a cop-out.


Here's a real controversial opinion: If Clinton had won, the eventual backlash would be much greater and have elected a far more odious figure than Trump. America is lucky that Trump is kind of a bumbling oaf that channeled populist rage.

Maybe the backlash would've been in Congress, through the election of more extreme figures on the right and left.

Disagree. Trump has done way more damage than Clinton ever could have. The backlash would’ve been similar to post Obama cuz the racists are also the sexists.

Yes, you are correct, everyone who doesn't like your preferred political candidates is racist and sexist.

That kind of normalises Trump, which is totally the wrong thing to do. You should not accept this as fact, nor should you tolerate this current regime. Doing so without protest is the biggest problem you have. Your defeatism is a self fulfilling prophecy.

> You should not accept this as fact, nor should you tolerate this current regime.

Should folks who disagree with you politically tolerate the Obama or Biden regimes then? Or are the only regimes that should be tolerated ones that agree with you politically?


> Or are the only regimes that should be tolerated ones that agree with you politically?

Politics aside, following the law is a bare minimum. Obama, Biden, even Bush (mostly, other than Iraq) did that.


Simplified:

——

GP: “You’re lucky you’re dealing with an incompetent bully. Imagine a competent bully.”

Me: “You should not accept bullying at all.”

You: “what about…”

——

People like you are a huge part of the problem.

Elect competence.


Does that make the UN American?

Is the UN a private organization legally incorporated in the US? The way that FIFA is in Europe/Switzerland?

Would FIFA be less corrupt if it were legally incorporated somewhere else?

I didn't know registering an entity in another place automatically changed the character of the people that run it. That's magic. Literally mind-control.


The point is that FIFA is a corrupt European institution and that has nothing to do with the US.

But maybe you're trying to make a No True Scotsman argument.


> The point is that FIFA is a corrupt European institution

It has "international" right there in the name. The vast majority of its members are not "European" in any sense. Calling it "European" is offensive to those members and to the footballing world as a whole. It reeks of a colonial attitude.

I'll ask you again: what actually affects how an organization runs? The place that it's registered in, or the people in charge?

FIFA has to be registered somewhere for legal reasons. That doesn't make it of that place.

> But maybe you're trying to make a No True Scotsman argument.

If FIFA were registered in the Caymans would you call it a Caymanian organization?


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