and wireless headset - i've done everything from cooking lunch, answering the door, toilet, walking around the house, laying in bed. When you aren't required to be watching someones screen, there is a lot of freedom.
This doesn't work well if you don't have a microphone though. though you could just join from your phone.
I've found myself watching and waiting for at least 3 people to join a meeting before I connect to avoid the inevitable minutes of greetings and unrelated discussion that always happens. Our meetings always start 5-10 minutes _past_ the scheduled time.
Depends. If it’s with ICs, sure. But as soon as some manager or someone with a leadership position joins, then it’s just plain work. So I dislike chitchatting with such people.
I know we don’t get to choose our coworkers and teams necessarily and experiences vary, but I am sorry you dread/dislike a little chit chat with your teammates:(
I think it's likely a problem with me specifically - I said no to going to celebrations like christmas lunch etc. But at the same time our team doesn't interact with each other socially in any other way. I'm very new to the job, so it isn't that I pushed everyone away from me, there just wasn't any closeness in the first place. It doesn't really help that I don't much like the job either.
But there are other times for that, why in a meeting? I chitchat during day 1-1 (virtual/irl) with my teammates, I don't, for etiquette, have to do it again when starting a meeting.
I agree maybe ideally not in a meeting, but humans are imperfect and the larger the number of people invited, the greater the chance it’s going to take a few mins for everyone to arrive. So inevitably the folks who are prompt do some water cooler talk while waiting, and depending on the day/group/topic the water cooler talk might even extend a few mins after everyone has arrived, especially if people are enjoying the convo.
> But there are other times for that, why in a meeting?
If you're in-person in an office, there are plenty of times for random social interaction. If you're full-remote, pre-meeting/post-meeting time is a low-friction source of social interaction.
I do love that zoom feature that shows the avatars of who’s joined already. Although I don’t like the game theory of it when every attendee is watching those icons…
Those awkward 5 minutes of greetings and unrelated discussion are because other people don't join until 5 minutes past, and sitting in silence would be even more awkward.
I suppose this may be the case for a lot of people. In my case it is always the two managers talking about their life and/or child's successes. This still occurs when _they_ are the late ones.
Same! If I see the first people joining are managers or above, I just wait until I see other engineers join. I hate managers talk, I couldn’t care less about them.
Fine, just like literally thousands of previous weekends before this one. And now I’m going to ask you the same and then zone out for 5 minutes because I literally couldn’t care less.
It’s been shown before that a couple minutes of pleasantries helps the meeting. I’m guessing it helps regulate everyone on a similar vibe. A lot like saying hello to someone and maybe how are you doing before launching into any requests.
At least for some of us, this isn't by choice.
I have no interest in clubs, bars or drinking - in a new city. How am I to meet people?
I keep getting told go to clubs and meetups. I found one boardgame club and went to it, it wasn't for me. Now what? I can't find a club of programmers or Linux users that meet more than once in a blue moon.
If you're in Melbourne and are actually into Linux/programming I'd love to hear from you. I'm tired of being 'nerdy' meaning playing DnD or video games, I want to mix with people interested in something beyond surface level.
If you can sense a hint of frustration in my typing you'd be correct
To be fair, saying you're interested in Linux and programming is also very surface level. It's like saying you like art.
But what kind of art? There are some great slam poetry events. What about interpretive dance? What about tea ceremonies? What about abstract monotone painting done with watercolors? What about painting Warhammer miniatures?
It's a massive field. So is programming. It's possible to meet with a person who also loves programming, but if you like working on networking backends and the other person really just loves writing shaders, programming alone is hard to find a common ground. It's like a person who loves slam poetry talking about their hobby with someone who's only interested in Warhammer. When they find a common topic to talk about, it'll probably be anything but slam poetry and Warhammer. It'll be a different hobby, like surfing or making homebrew beers.
What I'm saying is, expand your interests. Try some things you've never even imagined being interested in before. You'll be surprised what you enjoy.
well obviously here I didn't go into specifics because this isn't my blog post or bio section.
I've tried board games and table tennis groups, it's at least something. I just found no interest there. I understand your point, for me it isn't easy to show up to something without a real interest or knowing someone. There's more to it than just deciding to go. I have to somehow get out of the door and show up, I'm not a very social person.
Contradictory I know. Until a year ago I was happy alone and never had a friend in teenage+ life, but finding someone I actually liked taught me people can be good.
without getting into my thoughts on this/your feelings, these types of hobby groups are closed loops and generally a sort of side quest in life.
Join a random volunteering event thru a local hospital, Veteran's affairs, shelter, hiking trails etc. You will organically meet people from outside your social strata/norms who you will organically hear from/reach out to and discover their organic hobbies/interest and gain a network.
Why volunteer? It's free, quick, rewarding, and generally weeds out weirdos.
My experience: I can name 3-4 people I know outside work that at least know Linux. Every other acquaintance I regularly associate with has been met either mountain biking or running.
I would never expect them to discuss alsa or systemd, and that is a blessing IMO. Gives me space to think about other things.
My best advice is to find some other activity that you love doing and start from there.
I've seen the LUG group in Melbourne before but I put it under the category of meeting once in a blue moon. I want to find people _now_ that I can socialise with, not hope in 3 months I find someone at an event
For me, the best way to meet people is exercise. I don't enjoy competitive sports, but there's plenty of non competitive sports and exercise out there, e.g. climbing, yoga, workout classes, hiking, cycling running, martial arts, dance etc.
You might say you have no interest in these, to which my response is: stop complaining and damn well develop an interest! Your body needs to be taken care of, and if you ignore that you might get through your 20s and 30s, but past that you're gonna start having serious health issues. So you can both improve your future and develop a social life.
Rather than just finding people in your narrow interest groups - Linux, coding, whatever - you'll meet people from all different walks of life. Some hyper focused on exercise, but mostly just normal people with a healthy outlook on taking care of their bodies.
I'm sure it's YMMV but I haven't met a friend through exercise since college. And I've done cycling classes, hikes, and some sports. Dynamic just feels so different with adults who want to be "around" people but not necessarily form new connections.
It's possible, anecdotally in Australia both myself and other family members have formed new friendships that have lasted and had breadth outside of purely physical activity from Canoe Clubs (on the Swan River), Biking (Pedal and motor), and Walking Track maintenance (local 1,000 km volunteer managed walking track).
To be clear those friendships formed more from a common interest in organising activities and club events than just the pure unadulterated physical activity part.
Yeah, I can believe you. That's a bit of the frustrating parts of forming friensdships (especially for neurodivergent individuals): there's no particular "formula" to follow. You could try to follow all steps to a T and get nothing, and instead you just trip over someone on the streets and they are your best friend for decades. The only certainty is getting outside of the house.
>To be clear those friendships formed more from a common interest in organising activities and club events than just the pure unadulterated physical activity part.
Interesting. I'm potentially intereted long term, but I simply lack the time, energy, and financial stability to really start doing that. I'll keep that in mind.
Take up an interest you can do socially and really dive deep into. For me, I easily made friendships with people after taking up viola and joining an amateur adult beginner orchestra. For you it might be rock climbing, or guitar, or maybe you could join a local crochet group if you’re into that.
I love programming too, and used to go to meetups before covid, but I think the music crowd for me has been easier to turn into a social thing.
I mean, this is like telling an obese person to just exercise and lose weight. Fact is, while it is that simple to those who are already doing it, to them, it is not that simple. The activation energy to the hobby can be immense and may require the person to change their entire lifestyle to accommodate it. For example, an obese person who suddenly exercise may come to work the next day worn out and less productive. They will also feel hungry and more irritated since they are not yet used to it and this can affect their social interactions. Eating becomes difficult and less enjoyable as they have to watch their calories intake and food type. Sleeping is harder with the hunger, etc.
I can fast almost everyday and I feel nothing even if I skip breakfast and lunch for the whole week. But I came to know many healthy people who hate to do the same to the point they can't do it even if they want to. Extrapolate, I understand what is easy and feel low effort for one person is not the same to someone else who is accustomed to the exact opposite. It takes more than just stating the obvious to help them.
But there’s really no way to get around it. Yes, you’ll have to put yourself in uncomfortable situations. There’s no one simple trick that’s going to mitigate that and trying to find a path that’ll get you there without discomfort is only delaying the inevitable.
Well we see the results of that in this article, I suppose.At some point we either accept the world is getting lonelier or adjust societal affordances to make them want to go out.
I stopped at one because I can't find anything else I'm remotely interested in. I don't particularly have interests beyond Linux and programming. I know that's limiting, but it is what it is
Shared interests are a key way to build social connections. You say you're frustrated, but then you say "it is what it is" about the most obvious way to make friends. Your frustration sounds like the result of self imposed limitations.
Here's my 2c. Pick an interest that attracts the kind of people you want to spend time with. Immerse yourself in that interest. Go meet people who share that interest. Spend time with them.
Any previous experience with that interest is not necessary - you can be honest and say you're new and learning. People tend to love sharing their interests.
Interests being what they are, one doesn't just find things interesting. If it's for the people and there's little actual interest in the activity itself, then it'll show and there will eventually be a breakdown. If lucky, one just might find a new genuine interest with people one is interested in, but that's being really lucky. Maybe a "Tinder for Interests" could work.
I respectfully disagree. Interests come from positive experiences. When people say they have no interest in - oh - Mongolian throat warbling, they generally mean they have absolutely no experience of it, and presume - based on that lack of experience - that they wouldn't find it interesting. Naturally, this is an uninformed opinion.
This is where being open minded to new interests can pay off handsomely. If your new interest comes with new friends that you greatly enjoy the company of, you will most likely develop a genuine interest over time as the natural result of those shared positive experiences.
Many of our existing interests are the echoes of positive experiences from our childhoods, and you can use the exact same mechanism to pick up new interests in adulthood.
I really don't see how interest can simply come from positive experience if there's no affinity. I've never tried Mongolian throat warbling, so I'm neither here nor there. And trying it doesn't mean I'll become interested in it even if I enjoy doing it a few times. Like I've generally had positive experience doing math (as far as I can recall), but I haven't gained any interest in it. It just isn't there. And that means I'd never join a math club, for example; I'd find it dull, even if I had friends in it. Same for a myriad of other things. It'd be pretty overwhelming mentally if one were to be interested in everything they tried and had a positive experience with IMO, which is why people specialize.
And conversely if I think hard enough, I can probably come up with something I never had early positive experience with but still pursued because I found it interesting. I'm also very interested in traveling in space, but I definitely don't have any experience, positive or negative, and likely will never gain any. I'd totally join a club that talks about traveling in space in a heartbeat though.
exactly this. interest in something can be contagious. in fact, it is the main job of teachers to get students to become interested in something. which is why i told the top commenter to keep looking. explore and try things. it also matters whether something is done alone or with others. i like solving problems for others, and i can get interested in something because others are interested in it. i like things more because they allow me to socialize.
In 2015 Melbourne there were 5 different groups meeting about Linux weekly and one group about every programming language in the top 20 of stack overflow.
The endless lockdowns destroyed pretty much all of civic society there and the place hasn't recovered, literally everyone I know from that period left after the lockdowns ended.
Well I suppose that you had something really exceptional in Melbourne, then. I've never heard of anything like that anywhere I've lived in the UK or Germany
This describes Manchester, UK pretty well as well - before the pandemic there would be some sort of tech meetup every day of the week. But now it is down to ~one a week. And many have been taken over by recruiters and marketers.
I'm pretty sure it was the same in every bigger European city. There used to be plenty of diverse tech meetups in Warsaw or Poznań, PL before the pandemic; today they're still slowly rebuilding and those that already did are usually still a shadow of their former self.
when i was visiting vienna there were 3 meetups every week. after covid! so i believe they recovered pretty well. it would be sad if they are the exception and i hope others will get back to their previous level of activity too.
If you understand that it’s limiting, then I guess you need to try to go to the Linux meetups and if that doesn’t suit you, find new ways of being happy?
You’re not giving anyone much to work with. I honestly can’t imagine only having 2 interests that are related.
That's the issue. There's very few Linux meetups and fewer still are frequent.
I had a similar issue going to 3d modeling meetups. Surprisingly few in Los Angeles. There's one blender Meetup that comes around maybe once a year and that's it.
It was bad before COVID, but Meetups completely torpedo'd during it. And it has bounced back as much as I thought.
I have an interest in systems programming. I've been on a run of enjoying esp32 iot home automation projects, I enjoy interfacing hardware with software. I enjoy restoring early hardware.
Home automation gives you a line in to hook up with tradespeople (electricians etc), building contractors, architects that design and install such systems.
There's a challenge there to socially meetup and connect to develop work, a career, or just exchange information.
Social friendships might come out of such pursuits.
(FWiW I'm in W.Australia, > 60, and had an interest in version 0.0 Linux when I was porting Minux to a transputer array and eating popcorn when Tannenbaum and Torvalds were back and forthing on UseNet)
I mean, it sounds like what really fits the bill for what you’re looking for are coworkers or collaborators more so than friends.
Which is fine, and recognizing that might help you find it. End of the day, having meaningful social connections takes actually being interested in other people, not just a shared external interest, or hobby.
Two years of lock downs killed most of civic society. It used to be that there were several interesting meetups every day. Now you'd be lucky to find one once a month.
Yup, I can confirm. The difference in meetups post and pre-pandemic is stark. Feels like a lot of society collectively realized they like being indoors and isolated and stayed that way. Can definitely say that for a few friends.
Of course, the party goes bounced right back. More introverted activities, not as much.
you say not being able to meet people is not by choice because there are so few people that have similar interests. as others have pointed out, your interests may be to limited but the point i am trying to make here is that limiting your interests is your choice.
i can feel your plight. i too struggle to connect with people if they don't share my interests. but i learned to try to approach finding friends like finding a partner. i know that it is very unlikely that i'll find a partner that shares my interests, so i have to branch out and look for other things that may be interesting too.
you already looked into video games and DnD. but keep looking.
one thing that is important is to not give up to quickly. you will not connect to everyone right away.
what was wrong with the board game club, for example? the wrong people? the wrong games? try going there a few times, see if the games and the people change. but most importantly, be patient and stick through the awkwardness of joining a group where everyone already knows each other and you are meeting them for the first time.
re video games and DnD, you may be tired of it, but if you are new to a city, it may be the way to get to know some people and learn about other activities of interest. move around, try different things. sometimes it is serendipity. i visited a friend in one city, but then i became friends with the landlord that i rented from, and a whole new world opened up that my initial friend wasn't connected to at all. keep your eyes open.
>but i learned to try to approach finding friends like finding a partner.
Swipe right on 1000 friends and hope months later someone responds back? Only to get a "hi" and then when you reply you get blocked?
It can feel that way sometimes yea.
>what was wrong with the board game club, for example?
I just don't like board games. I even was working at a startup making a custom campaign, so I had to play test plenty of that as we as compare with some other kinds of games. Boss was clearly a very passionate DM, but I just never truly "clicked" into that role playing myself.
So I've tried and just accepted board games aren't for me.
>re video games and DnD, you may be tired of it, but if you are new to a city, it may be the way to get to know some people and learn about other activities of interest.
I'm shocked how little game meetups there are in my city. Seemed like there wee a decent amount pre-pandemic, but they got utterly wiped out when the world re-opened. I only see a semi-consistent one and it's monthly.
I just don't like board games. I even was working at a startup making a custom campaign
sounds to me like you are talking about role playing, which is one kind of table top game, while board games in general are an entirely different kind of table top game. chess is a board game, risk, settlers of catan, that sort of thing. possibly even magic the gathering. basically anything that is not about role playing. a board game club would generally be about those, not about role playing.
the key point here is that while role playing may not be your thing, most board games have an entirely different dynamic, and if you haven't tried them yet, i recommend you take a look.
I don't really count as young any more but I'm in Sydney with the same view. I've tried various meetups a few times over the years and no matter how they were described all i got was cornered by sales people. I don't tend to agree with the way such groups are described.
Are there volunteer activities that you could take part in?
Are there (natural) languages you'd be interested in learning?
Are there sports that you enjoy? I know of a group in my city (Washington, DC) that meets for Saturday morning runs, and based on the couple of times I've seen them, I'd say that there is a pretty broad range of speed and endurance among them. A local running goods company has "social runs" (at what I consider more social hours) starting from its locations. I'd be surprised to hear that Melbourne does have something comparable. And there are softball leagues and kickball leagues.
thinking about this some more, i remembered one experience when i was traveling in new zealand. i looked up all the lug mailing lists in every major city and told them i was coming for a visit and that i'd like to meet some people, and even offered to give a talk about one of the things i had experience with.
the result was that in every city i went to i got a few people to hang out for an evening and in some locations i gave a talk. i remember in at least one location i was told that my visit motivated the online group to get together physically again, which they hadn't done for some time.
so maybe you can look for the online groups, get active in those and then offer yourself to host a meeting or two. scout locations, but keep it simple, to the extent that you are comfortable with. making a reservation at some restaurant may be all it takes to get started.
in beijing we had an active group but at one point we didn't have a suitable location, so we made an activity out of it. a few of the more motivated people would meet weekly in a different area of the city and actually walk the street to scout for a location. when we found a place we'd go in and test it, and if it was ok, we would hold the next meeting there.
the important part is that because the goal was to test locations, there was no expectations that i as a host had to find and check the location before hand, nor that the locations we tested would be good.
another thing was that the people who came with me to scout for locations were the ones who cared most about the group. and they were the ones who took over leading the group after i left. the group is still going. survived through covid.
in other words, if there is no offline meeting yet (or not anymore), maybe you can try starting one.
this only works if you actually end up enjoying the activity, but everything from arts classes to beginners rock climbing clubs or a running club can work.
For me I joined a silly learn-self-defence club when I first moved to the big city and I can't now remember any moves but I have fond memories of some of the people.
There are no promises of budding or lasting friendships forming, but its always worth a shot and you might actually find something that sticks.
I found a local makerspace. The makerspace has a weekly "build day" which attracts a lot of varied folks doing fun projects, including a lot of software-heavy things.
I also found some hiking and cycling groups. Lots of time to socialize while you're walking or cycling.
Yeah, it's tough meeting people in general these days. Meetups are nice but no one addresses that they tend to be monthly more often or not. How easy is it for you to form meaningful connections with monthly appearances?
If you're young enough to pull it off (20's) I'd recommend local college clubs. Your audience will be a bit (or much) younger, but you will meet likeminded people to talk with. including whatever professor is hosting and supervising the group. They usually aren't too fussed about you being a non-student as long as you're participating in the activities.
The Grandstream HT802 is the device I am using. It allows two analog phones (including dial phones) to connect to a VOIP provider. Each phone can have different servers.
For me it is a lot about the noise and feeling of the dial, I get satisfaction out of them.
Can you expand on Brooklyn/Portland? Is that hipster or something?
I can imagine it did suck to _actually_ use, the faster 20pps dials feel quite a lot faster.
yeah sorry about that, I've removed the cool walking background sprite.
I'm going for a 90's theme, where eveyrthing looked awful but felt really personal
I started mine more specifically for pagination of my blog, but it turned into good practice for character and file manipulation. I've been thinking of giving it a go to create a markdown interpreter. Right now the source files are just html
